In January 2018, Olinger joined the general secretariat of the UEL business union, first as secretary general, then as director. He chairs the executive committee of the UEL and is appointed Director of the INDR, a sustainable development institute. Olinger holds various administrative positions in Luxembourg social security bodies.
Meanwhile, Back began working at the OGBL in 2004. In July 2018, she was elected secretary general of the trade union. Following the 2019 social elections, she became president of the Chamber of Employees (CSL). In December 2019, she was elected president of the OGBL, the first woman to hold the office.
The debate between the two took place on 5 January and is being published online one month after the government said the CovidCheck regime should be made mandatory in companies. The regulations have since been made optional after the government's update of the covid-19 law on 11 February.
Does the 3G measure have merit in your eyes, or should we be testing everyone?
Nora Back: I think we should have a combination of the two. The position of the OGBL has always been that we need to continue doing tests, because the goal for everyone is to get out of this pandemic situation and return to normality--and if we want to do that, we must limit the number of infections. We have also always been for the vaccination, but for us it was not a good idea to stop free testing, which prevents those who are positive to circulate at work.
Jean-Paul Olinger: Testing or 3G, for us, the solution is vaccination. The only way out of this crisis is vaccination, as much as possible. Testing up to now has been more of a hindrance on vaccination. Of course, testing helps to detect when people are positive, but we follow the guidance of the scientists; it is them who tell us we must increase the rate of vaccination. Further, we are absolutely in favour of clear and easy regulations which do not change every day. A model like 3G within business gives additional security for all members of staff, and solidarity is also important amongst employees.
NB: I am not in total agreement that 3G gives us additional security. It has given a false sense of security, because you can just show you are vaccinated and remove your mask and move about.
Who should pay the tests for workers?
JPO: For me, the individual. He has a solution which is the vaccination, that is free. We agreed together with the government, people who get their first dose will get tests for free until 28 February. And that was a very good compromise, in order to show people if they give in a little bit, then everybody gives in, in a positive way. We need a little bit of solidarity, and solidarity is not a one-way street.
NB: The moment where there is a political situation where people are told they must pay in order to enter their work premises--we can no longer agree. And I will remain very clear on this point: a society that does not mandate vaccines retains the right for people to not get vaccinated--we cannot give this right to some and not to others. There are those who have the means to pay for the tests and those who financially are not able to do it. It is a form of social discrimination. They’ve introduced a right that exists only in theory. Either the boss pays partially, and the state pays the rest, or the state pays.
Let’s talk about the changing role of workers and business in society: what is their social responsibility?
NB: We have in Luxembourg, a well-known tripartite social model which is involved with the social dialogue. The three of us make up ‘the vital forces of the nation’ in political decision-making. We have a social responsibility beyond just going to work and making money. But ultimately, it’s the government who makes the laws. We do not get involved on health issues. We are here to protect jobs and so we got involved with the 3G. There is substantial change happening, and it could be seen as a good thing having more sway in the argument, but sometimes, we have to say, this is not for us to say. We are not listed as a political party, we’re not on the front row of parliament. And we want to leave that to those who represent our society.
JPO: It’s not about power, it’s about responsibility. We have a responsibility which goes beyond companies, who want simply to function. Our role is to ensure that companies can work, and that people are able to work in a healthy and agreeable environment. The government could accuse us of ‘cherry-picking’ if we didn’t participate in the 3G debate. It was crucial that we did, our role is to keep the economy open, to keep companies and wider society open. Last year, with lockdown, public debt increased rapidly--and we quickly reached our limit. Our role is to inform the government on the situation at ground level for business. Our organisations are more focused on putting out fires, that are everywhere. As social partners, we’ve worked a lot together, which has helped us understand and respect our roles, strengthening our relationship. We have achieved a lot, proving that social dialogue works in Luxembourg.
How do you see the situation developing in the future? Do you believe this is to be a temporary measure?
NB: I don’t know! [Laughs] We cannot predict anything anymore. Currently, we are moving towards debating the mandatory vaccination. I think, if this opinion is explored further, it will end the need for 3G in businesses. If we don’t have forced vaccines, then I believe we’re going to be living with this so-called 3G for a while. Maybe it will all work how we imagine and hope, that it will push people to such an extent to get vaccinated that there won’t be any big problems. Or it will further worsen the social divides, there will be more revolts and opposing confrontations, we’ll have people without salaries, and political, economic and social frustrations. It is all very uncertain, like the future is very uncertain. This pandemic throws us surprises every few days, so it’s difficult to predict.
JPO: There are European tendencies in Luxembourg to integrate with what happens around us. We’re not going to be the island in Europe. But we have our heads in the sand, because there are other problems and challenges that are hiding, emerging behind covid: inflation, energy transitions, rising energy costs and issues with supply chains. These are all elements which we are not focused on at the minute, but they will be great challenges in the medium term. We’re still on a path of energy reduction, decreasing our usage by 55% for 2030. That means, for all of us, more than halving our energy consumption, and we’re not yet conscious of it, or the implications that it will have on our daily lives. These are big challenges that are covered by covid, which will slowly come to the fore. When that happens, we will have to be ready, together, to come to some good decisions.
This interview first appeared in the February 2022 edition of .